HairyHammer
9:23 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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Golden Oldie Surface
To call something Genocide without looking at circumstance is a joke and a pathetic bad one at that.
To believe Turkey was just going out to murder every Armenian is stupid and only believable to those who do not know history.
Look at the German situation and why you call what they did Genocide, then look at Turkey and what they did and why a few countries call it Genocide, Chalk and Cheese.
Not Genocide In 1930 1940 1950 1960 1970 1980 1990 and then some start to discuss it. And now Genocide has been 100% proved by 25 countries without so much as a look into historical affairs ,sorry that is Bollocks.
I accept Turks did wrong and massacred because they were massacred but talk about the 2 million Turks who fucking died in there own country first talk of the circumstances talk of the countries that gave guns to the Armenians to help the war effort of those against Turkey then fucking discuss what happened but no Turks killed 1.5 million Armenians and that is it it is there whole nasty fault they were wiping out a whole race because they are evil, BOLLOCKS TO THAT.
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Joe C
9:10 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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So Turkish papers say they killed less Armenian's than what everyone else says?
Do you see the flaw here?
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HairyHammer
9:08 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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2 million is a big number also a false one compared to what Turkish papers say, actual historical accounts Turkish losses just in this War are over 2 million.
You see the West does not care about the Turk never really has they are the Moslem not to be trusted vile bastard on the edge of Europe they are the other and can always be bought also they are not intelligent. What happened to Turks in their Own country and their villages ie thousands being killed by Armenians being supported by Russia and France does not even matter to the west why should anyone care anyway.
Had the shoe been on the other foot IE the Christian foot everything would be double checked well check out archives Western media reports etc etc but no Weapons of Mass destruction Armenian Genocide all words that sound solid but when you look for it you must study everything the Turks are telling the whole world you show me yours and I will show you mine, but Armenians will not budge and the West take the side they supported during the war it is not fare.
It has seriously taken 100 years for this to be seen as Genocide, something very iffy there.
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Golden Oldie
8:57 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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Sh4BB056OY1M2Zero 4:36 Wed Jul 6
"I see Hairy is now blaming the Turkish genocide of the Armenians on the Armenians."
I see you're trying to maintain the modern lie that the 'Young Turks' [a coined nickname] were ethnically Turkish when they were in fact Dönmeh.
Why won’t Israel acknowledge the Armenian Genocide?
http://themillenniumreport.com/2015/11/why-wont-israel-acknowledge-the-armenian-genocide-the-donmeh-jewish-leadership-of-turkey-was-responsible/
Look it up yourself,
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Shin Chan
8:56 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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What did the Romans ever do for us????
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cholo
8:54 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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Hairy
The Armenian genocide is a real thorn in your side when you just want to get on with criticising Britain for its imperial past isn't it.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
8:44 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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HairyHammer 8:25 Wed Jul 6
'Yes massacres happened no doubt Turks did bad shit to Armenians but that is not Genocide,'
I'm afraid if the 'bad shit' involves killing 1.5 million civilians out of a total of 2 million by means of the massacre of able bodied men and the extermination of the women children and old by means of death marches, then it is difficult to think of a word other than 'genocide' to describe it. 'Bad shit' really doesn't cut it, I'm afraid, and in fact comes perilously close to trivialising it.
'Turkey was fighting a war and being attacked by Russia France GB etc'
Not in 1920, they weren't, when the Turks killed the last 200,000 Armenians they could get their hands on.
You are attempting to defend the indefensible. You'd probably do well to give it up.
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Tomshardware
8:34 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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They did have weapons of mass destruction but flushed them down the toilet before we could find them.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
8:33 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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BRANDED 6:42 Wed Jul 6
'Most African Nations haven't invaded most other Nations on Earth.'
Most of them have invaded one other nation. So morally they are the same. The fact that they are comparatively shit at invading other nations doesn't make them morally superior or Britain morally inferior.
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HairyHammer
8:25 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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mashed in maryland
Yes massacres happened no doubt Turks did bad shit to Armenians but that is not Genocide, Turkey was fighting a war and being attacked by Russia France GB etc it was a weak nation on its last legs and then the Armenians supported by the Russians began to massacre Turks from within, all documented but what Western country gives a shit about Turks? there are cuttings from media about Turkish villages being cut to shreds by Armenian gangs does anyone care for the truth?.
The Germans advertised their hate for Jews look for that in the Ottoman empire does not exist, the Germans put people in ovens and gassed them again that did not happen in Turkey, Armenians did get killed because they were massacring Turks again plenty of mass graves of dead Turks for proof and eye witnesses too. Germany created hate and then went in for the kill Turkey was simply trying to save their skin all be it in a shitty nasty way and yes they were wrong to deport Armenians they accept that.
As for my Pride in the Ottoman empire it dwarfs into comparison with my greatest love that of Ataturk and his secular democratic westernised constitution .
I dislike everything the current lot are doing in Turkey and they truly want to bring back the Ottoman day's.
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riosleftsock
7:44 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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Yes Branded, I'm sure you are an expert on the area, in which case it won't surprise you to learn that the crisis in the ME has been brewing for decades and is not all the fault of the west.
This has been a long time coming, and at the vital moment we ducked out.
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BRANDED
7:36 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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An enormous war in the middle east you say?
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riosleftsock
7:33 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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This probably won't be a very popular post, but I think we were right to invade Iraq and topple saddam.
I think we were wrong with our timing and planning and we left too early, but Bush and Blair were largely right to sort out Iraq. The way they went about it was catastrophic, but I'm not sure the Chilcott report covers this properly or looks at whose fault it was.
Iraq definitely had WMD and chemical, biiological and other weapons and had something like 3,000 scientists trained on developing a nuclear capability - I can think of at least one of its neighbours who would not have stood for this (quite rightly too) and their action would have started an enormous war in the middle east and possibly could have led to nuclear weapons being used.
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BRANDED
6:59 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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Well. We have form. I'm not suggesting its why Blair took the decision because of It but most of the world could see through the nonsense. Sweden weren't invading.
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mashed in maryland
6:53 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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"The whole country was built on this shit. Invading stuff, stealing stuff, using a ruler to draw borders irrespective who fucking lives there, grouping people together who shouldnt be, installing governments people dont like..
That is the BRITISH EMPIRE."
You speak as if the people living in the empire weren't already killing and enslaving each other, or that western European empires were the first/only to do any of it.
And you're using that to try and nullify the actions of Tony Blair.
Interesting way of looking at the world I'll give you that.
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Takashi Miike
6:51 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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the point is you're an apologist for a massive cunt who is the architect of modern terrorism
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orwells tragedy
6:50 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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How big were these armies that invaded, lets say India?
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mashed in maryland
6:46 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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That the direction this thread is going - that Britain is inherently at fault for the world's ills due to the empire - is a load of twaddle.
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threesixty
6:44 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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I just thought it was funny...
But when I really think about it, I'll tell you what the point is:
The whole country was built on this shit. Invading stuff, stealing stuff, using a ruler to draw borders irrespective who fucking lives there, grouping people together who shouldnt be, installing governments people dont like..
That is the BRITISH EMPIRE.
That is the country of old that some people in this country look back on fondly. Tony Blair is not unique in carry on the tradition of doing what Britain has been doing for centuries.
And it's why a really dont give a fuck about this whole thing. We cry about 179 soldiers who lost their lives but would it have been any more righteous an event if he had got that UN resolution? Does it really matter? You're still out there killing people. If you kill civilians with a UN resolution is that suddenly ok?
I just hate the hypocricy. The rage we get into. All this shit when in reality we are all living of the proceeds of this type of behaviour. Its what this country was built on (and much of Europe as well, dont get me started on France and Belgium..)
I'm truly gutted about all the deaths but I refuse to be drawn into all this faux outrage as if this whole thing in something unusual in the context of our country. It really isnt.
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BRANDED
6:42 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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Mashed.
Most African Nations haven't invaded most other Nations on Earth. In fact most Nations haven't.
What's your point?
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Shin Chan
6:35 Wed Jul 6
Re: Tony Blair
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The man is a lying war mongering cunt, losing British lives needlessly.
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